One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. Furthermore, if you're working in an older home KERDI-BOARD fits better than cement board in odd spaces. rev2023.3.3.43278. Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. Redgard is a similar product. Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. But there are downsides. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. Spacers are the next step. In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. Removing bathroom tile from cement backerboard, Transition from KERDI membrane backed, to not backed. Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. 120 sq feet including the floor. Gettin' a little delirious. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. Will use the Schluter Shower system. is that because water doesn't really hit that area?" - Lisa Jasper That's pushing it but should be fine. Kerdi, a waterproofing membrane made of a special polyethylene fabric, should be allowed to completely dry prior to tiling. When it comes to tile underlayment, your options can be categorized into three main classifications, each suitable for different tiling circumstances: Although cement board is the most commonly used underlayment for tile, Kerdi board is growing in popularity as a multifunctional tile substrate. Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. This product is available in 3/16", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" 3/4", 1" 1-1/2" and 2" thicknesses, allowing for a wide variety of installation options. When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. We are DIYers who have already remodeled one bathroom successfully, but this is our first time using The Schluter shower system. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. When installing KERDI with . When I tried to use the edge of my trowel [per schlutter video] I could see I was pulling a lot of the 'felt' off the backer. Though, each product comes with its own individual characteristics, and pros and cons. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. Sheets of glass mat gypsum are made from water-resistant silicone-treated gypsum, reinforced on both sides by fiberglass mats. Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? Applying a conventional cement backer board to such a structure is almost impossible. Maybe try another brand of thinset? Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. I'm thirsty. In my. Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. I usually use Durock. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. What do you mean it doesn't adhere? When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. Once youre sure that the membrane is completely dry, you can then move forward with tiling. How did this project turn out? Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. Step 7: Cut the Tile. I still wet the walls first. And for a more secure fit, you can also use screws. There are many different types of underlayment to choose from, but they all serve the same purpose. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. An additional layer of sealant can also be applied on the seams for extra protection and water resistance. x 96 in. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. As such, many homeowners and professionals find themselves wondering whether Kerdi Board or cement board is the better tile substrate. New England. @JimmyFix-it - You are right. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. I trust it and have never had a callback. However, you do still have to take care to waterproof the seams and the fastener penetrations to create a waterproof assembly. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. I will say that to is easier to put the membrane over drywall than cement board. Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. I have used kerdi, and I have applied it over cement board. Cementboard sufficient to a tub surround is dirt cheap .vs. When it comes to using thinset with Schluter products, the Schluter-Systems website recommends using unmodified thin-set mortars specifically designed for use with Schluter membranes. Thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is best for interior projects, but if youre installing outdoors, you should use thinset with a polymer modified (PM) compound for greater moisture resistance. To line niche shelves, for instance. This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . No, that doesn't sound right. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. If done according to manufacturers instructions, it will seal nicely. It could take longer if the space is particularly wet or humid. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack. I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. see Prop 65 WARNINGS. I appreciate your help and your quick response. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Step 8: Allow to dry. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? Such membranes typically come in a brush or a roller form and can help create a durable barrier against water infiltration. Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. Needed to interject a little "amateur humor. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. With cement board as a substrate, the key is to ensure proper installation of the membrane. The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. The bag says Mapei floortile mortar, it was the only unmodified thinset at our hardware store. This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. . Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. Additionally, a liquid water-resistant membrane should be applied over all surface areas before installation. Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. Cement board sucks up the moisture and as a result, the kerdi doesn't always stick as well to cement board. They are square. We store towels, medicine, toiletry supplies, first-aid gear, massage devices, facial steamers, spare Painting your garage is a great way to improve the look of the space and make the walls easier to clean. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. RedGard On Hardibacker Board. MAPEI makes products for each step of the remodel process, giving you a single source solution, and only one phone number to call if you need assistance! If you can paint a wall, you can use RedGard. The kerdi membrane will probably do the same, and its regularly installed over drywall which is probably less stable. The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. the cost of the tile job. rev2023.3.3.43278. (3ft-3in wide)Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving . I used to "trust" the Kerdi and drywall until I had a shower that the valve broke inside the wall cavity four years after being put in. Hi.I have a unique situation. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. The main types of cement board you could encounter are Fibre Reinforced Cement (FRC) board and gypsum board. #2. We just went through a learning curve on the Kerdi and Hardi. Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. The thin-set mortar should be mixed to a fairly dry consistency and then spread on the surface with a 1/4 inch square notch trowel. We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. Can I put Kerdi board over drywall? Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles. Manufactured by Schluter Systems, Kerdi Board is a multifunctional tile underlayment and construction panel, that can also be implemented for forming bonded waterproof assemblies with tile coverings. Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. Kerdi board, on the other hand, is an extruded polystyrene foam panel. Should I redo this wall to avoid a mold sandwich? I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. The 1/4-inch-thick board is typically used on floors and countertops. Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . I hope you made the guy flood test his work prior to tiling the shower floor. If a pipe or faucet ever leaks in the wall this will ruin your shower. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. 1. Slap it up comb it out, leave every ridge tall and perfect. Make sure the floor is level in the shower. I hang Kerdi on cement board and fibercement board all the time. Unlike cement boards, you can bend this material without it breaking. Because it can let some moisture wick through it, you have two choices: put a moisture barrier behind it to protect the structure, or, waterproof the front of it. Let's start! craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. If I go the kerdi membrane route, do I still need to tape the joints before installing the kerdi membrane . Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. @JimmyFix-it - hardiboard is not really porous unless it is completely saturated. Additionally, it is important to waterproof cement board before tiling, as the grout and tiles can help keep the board watertight. Jun 21, 2017. It is lightweight and made of expanded polystyrene. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. Hardi is definitely a "thirsty" substrate but will work, even without a primer of RedGard. Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT is a prefabricated sloped shower tray with integrated Kerdi waterproofing. you should still water proof with a liquid membrane product like RedGuard. Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. The fastest method [for me and possibly other dilettants] is to stroke the knife at a diagonal to the comb marks, top down, center out, pushing all the air before you with short, overlapping strokes.-Thinset needs to be pretty darn wet: Needs to stay put when combed, but should be soft and shiney. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor, Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. Moisture resistant can cause similar problems, and there is absolutely no advantage to it. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. The surface of Wedi is perfect for bonding. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. The gridlines printed on the surface are beneficial for the installation process, also allowing for quick, neat cuts with a utility knife. Their lighter weight makes moving panels around during installation a cinch, which is a far cry from the heft of conventional cement board. When I do another shower I'll use real cement board, not Hardi-board.